They just want it so bad, they don't want to grow old, get sicker, die, worry about retirement, etc. They look to it as, well, as their salvation from every problem and issue in their life, perfect body, youth, seeing dead loved ones, you can see why they are looking for it in every news flash. If I believed it, I would be too.
Big Dog
JoinedPosts by Big Dog
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I can't stand that 'hooray another earthquake' thing
by sass_my_frass ini think that motherdarling actually likes to hear about earthquakes, especially the ones that cause a lot of death.
i don't know why she's so excited about terrorist bombings and hurricanes though, they're not mentioned in matthew except for the faint out of fear thing.
i saw a website once with exact stats on eathquakes in the last few centuries and was delighted to learn that they only seem to have increased because of the increased population in areas where they occur and the more sophisticated technology detecting small shudders and movement in seabeds etc.
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The Dangers and Morality of Science
by Big Dog inwith all the discussion here about the dangers of religion, its morality issues, and so on i thought it would be interesting to have a discussion (especially given the large population of science oriented folks on this board) where we discuss the same issues with respect to science.
now this is not meant to be some i want to go back to the dark ages thread, but more so that recognition that there are moral, ethical, and hell survival issues with science that need to be addressed.. michael crichton as most know is both a famous author and an extremely bright individual who attended harvard medical school, in his novel jurrassic park he raised some issues with science and its dangers: .
"jurassic park was intended to warn the general public concerning the inherent dangers of biotechnology first of all, but also science in general.
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Big Dog
Kid, but what if they do clone a person? Who are they a ward of, the state? the lab that grew them? Do they have rights like gestated humans or are they seen as something else? I just see lots of scary scenarios that have been the fodder of sci fi novels and movies playing themselves out.
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The Dangers and Morality of Science
by Big Dog inwith all the discussion here about the dangers of religion, its morality issues, and so on i thought it would be interesting to have a discussion (especially given the large population of science oriented folks on this board) where we discuss the same issues with respect to science.
now this is not meant to be some i want to go back to the dark ages thread, but more so that recognition that there are moral, ethical, and hell survival issues with science that need to be addressed.. michael crichton as most know is both a famous author and an extremely bright individual who attended harvard medical school, in his novel jurrassic park he raised some issues with science and its dangers: .
"jurassic park was intended to warn the general public concerning the inherent dangers of biotechnology first of all, but also science in general.
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Big Dog
Kid A, specific organs, no problem, headless bodies starts to creep me out, and you just know that they are going to clone a full human being. I can just see a legal and ethical quagmire when they do that one.
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The Dangers and Morality of Science
by Big Dog inwith all the discussion here about the dangers of religion, its morality issues, and so on i thought it would be interesting to have a discussion (especially given the large population of science oriented folks on this board) where we discuss the same issues with respect to science.
now this is not meant to be some i want to go back to the dark ages thread, but more so that recognition that there are moral, ethical, and hell survival issues with science that need to be addressed.. michael crichton as most know is both a famous author and an extremely bright individual who attended harvard medical school, in his novel jurrassic park he raised some issues with science and its dangers: .
"jurassic park was intended to warn the general public concerning the inherent dangers of biotechnology first of all, but also science in general.
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Big Dog
Nark, forgot to mention, very cool quote.
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43
The Dangers and Morality of Science
by Big Dog inwith all the discussion here about the dangers of religion, its morality issues, and so on i thought it would be interesting to have a discussion (especially given the large population of science oriented folks on this board) where we discuss the same issues with respect to science.
now this is not meant to be some i want to go back to the dark ages thread, but more so that recognition that there are moral, ethical, and hell survival issues with science that need to be addressed.. michael crichton as most know is both a famous author and an extremely bright individual who attended harvard medical school, in his novel jurrassic park he raised some issues with science and its dangers: .
"jurassic park was intended to warn the general public concerning the inherent dangers of biotechnology first of all, but also science in general.
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Big Dog
BTT, I was hoping Tetra and Doogie would weigh in here, and all the other brainiacs. Edited to add: Unless this is a pitifully stupid thread, then ignore.
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creationism in the us of a
by googlemagoogle injust read in the newspaper that some 54% of americans favor creationism and diss darwin.
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i know, never trust a stat you haven't faked yourself, but... is creationism (especially yec) really that wide spread in the us?
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Big Dog
but, lets talk about depression and anger and ratios while we're at it. sure, no criminal is going to say i raped the lady next door because jesus told me to do it. but, where does his anger and sexulal frustration come from? and what role does an anthropocentric belief system play in such a person, if even privately OR subconsciously? i don't know, but i also see a lot of angry and depressed religious people. i wonder if the ratio of angry and depressed religious people within a religious population, is the same as the number of angry and depressed atheist people within an atheist population? i don't know. but i suppose it is determinable. i basically just created a falsifiable hypothesis that is testable.
Tetra, let's write up a grant proposal and do a study, it sure as hell beats working for living. You raise a very interesting point there about the anger and repressed emotions, etc. I would be the first to agree that a fair amount of people go off the rails due to those forces, probably the other half are just animals. Yeah, I am reading athiest websites, I don't have my head in the sand, in my ass sometimes maybe but not in the sand, i am open to checking it all out before I put my money down on the pass line. I am still working out my whole world view which like I told you before, has been on the shelf for a long time as I worked out the practical issues of my life. Now that I have those sorted out I'm working on the philosophical stuff or whatever the heck you want to call it.
(full-time school + full-time work = full-time zombie
Doogie, been there done that and it sucked, hard. But trust me, eventually it will be over, just when you are doing it that day never seems like it is going to get there. I'm sure the topic of where morals, ethics, conscience has been done before, by people better than me, so I'll just shut the frick up and go read some philosophy and anthropology books.
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creationism in the us of a
by googlemagoogle injust read in the newspaper that some 54% of americans favor creationism and diss darwin.
.
i know, never trust a stat you haven't faked yourself, but... is creationism (especially yec) really that wide spread in the us?
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Big Dog
except that religion is the principle label (if even only privately) that people can latch onto to justify their immoral actions.
Tetra,
I'm going to try and get a little technical with ya . I was reading an athiest website last night and I think I fully understand that atheism is non-belief. Okay, I get that, its not a belief system its just non-belief. Okay, so all of the people that commit crimes, immoral actions that are not christians, or have no moral beliefs are still committing crimes and immoral actions, they just aren't using a belief system to justify them, they are just doing them because that's what they want to do.
I'd be willing to wager that most hardened criminals in the prisions, both here and in Canada would not say they committed their crimes because of any religious beliefs, ie.they are not going to say, I blew away the liquor store owner because I am a christian, or I raped the lady next door because Jesus commanded me to, etc.. I'd be more willing to bet if you could get inside of their heads, that they did it because they are a little closer to our animal cousins that you, me, and Doogie are.
Okay, so my point, yes, people use religion (any religion) often times to justify heinous actions, but there are plenty of people, and that number I think might out weigh the religious folks that committ crimes, well, just because. As you pointed out above and as others did, its a people thing, its not because they believe or don't believe, its because they are rotten pieces of crap. I just don't see religion as the threat you do, believers and non-believers can be really, really rotten.
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91
creationism in the us of a
by googlemagoogle injust read in the newspaper that some 54% of americans favor creationism and diss darwin.
.
i know, never trust a stat you haven't faked yourself, but... is creationism (especially yec) really that wide spread in the us?
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Big Dog
i don't beat my girlfriend because ;i love her and beating isn't a very ;nice thing to do. of course, there are laws preventing me from stealing, or abusing my dog or girlfriend, but that's not why i don't do those things. if they were lifted i firmly believe i would still hold to my ethics.
Doog, I totally believe that statement, which I guess leads to the endless debate about where your ethics came from. You are a good person, why? Evolution programmed you to be good? You have a God given conscience that is born into you?
I think about ethics and morality sometimes and wonder, if there is no God, higher power, whatever, how did we arrive at what most of us would subscribe to as morally good things and morally bad things (and this is getting way off topic so I'll either shut up or start another thread)? Like the founding fathers with, we hold these truths to be self evident, sometimes I read that and think, huh, what does that mean. Are there some universal truths out there? More philosophy than anything i guess.
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creationism in the us of a
by googlemagoogle injust read in the newspaper that some 54% of americans favor creationism and diss darwin.
.
i know, never trust a stat you haven't faked yourself, but... is creationism (especially yec) really that wide spread in the us?
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Big Dog
It seems as though that the abscence of any form of religion is seen to be the ideal scenario among many here. Daunt and others, my point wasn't that you could only have morality through religion, it was that you can just as easily have amorality without religion, do you understand the point that I'm trying to make, that everyone suddenly jettisoning religious beliefs is not going to fix very many social problems? That neither religion nor non religion is going to give you a just society.
to say that the only reason people do good is fear of punishment is not really fair
Doogie, you know I love you man, but I'm not sure if I can go with the above. Have you seen the US Code, or the US penal code, or the local ordinances, etc. our whole secular justice system is a system of punishment for "wrongdoing". Do you think we would have the level of law and order we have (which according to many isn't much) without the threat of punishment we hang over the general population's head via the police and court system?
As for creationism, intelligent design, whatever you want to call it, I agree that it should not be taught in science classes, teach science in the schools and religion in church, fine by me. But I do think that kids need to be taught that yes science is self correcting, and the science you are taught today maynot be the science your grandchildren are taught 50 years from now.
As a side point, how is intelligent design via extra terrestrials religious?
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creationism in the us of a
by googlemagoogle injust read in the newspaper that some 54% of americans favor creationism and diss darwin.
.
i know, never trust a stat you haven't faked yourself, but... is creationism (especially yec) really that wide spread in the us?
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Big Dog
the idea that we are special creation is arrogant, and does not help in dangerous situations like ecology and war, to name a couple.
Tetra, I think just the opposite, to think that we are not special is very dangerous, if we are nothing but big brained apes then slaughtering a bunch of beings that swung down from the trees a couple of hundred thousand years ago is no big deal. They are nothing special, just animals with cognitive abilities, there is no higher power to answer to, you can kill as many as you want. I can rape the planet because once I'm dead, what do I care, I'm gone, I'm not going to be punished for it.
Christians are not the only ones that can use their world view to come up with some pretty twisted ideas IMO. I can't believe every slimy industrialist polluting the planet is a christian, nor do I believe every despot that practices genocide is a christian.